Curse

Esan · Sep 02, 2007, 07:17 AM // 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Bar 1 is like how is that hero meant to maintain their energy?

Bar 1 is bog standard Glyph/Shield of Regen monk, and is a GuildWiki build if I recall correctly. It used to be awesome in human hands. The recent SoR nerf has made it a bit iffy, but it can still work. Heroes can run it sort of. They tend to use Aegis at exactly the wrong times and have no clue about what conditions to dismiss. Moreover, hero AI is screwed up for glyphs: they will wait until they can pay full price for skills instead of factoring the Glyph of Lesser Energy into it. So, you will often have to force the GoLE.

It's terrible for hard mode, though. Depending on the area, you want to be using either a Boon (anti spike) or an LoD (anti pressure) healer, both of which the heroes can use competently. The prot henchie can catch the occasional slipup well enough. Two copies of RoF, DC or SoA are almost never needed. Also, what's the point of two prots if you are not going to be chaining Aegis?

bhavv · Sep 02, 2007, 08:08 PM // 20:08

SoR is fine in human hands. AI monks just waste their energy too fast. I like to run SoR, LoD and ZB. I were just lucky enough to get two guild monks and pwned Moddock Crevice and Kodunur Crossrads with no problem after they used the builds I gave them. Then they left so I put out a LFG message and got someone wanting to do nundu HM.

He had this on his monk:

I just told him I wasnt in the mood to spend ages sorting it out so I kick him and enter with Mhenlo, Khim, sogolon, and Herta.

I noticed just now he was a paragon and didnt even have the sunspear skill on his bar. If a paragon doing HM doesnt have the sunspear skill im not taking them.

Party Wiped by the first Nightbringer

Did a bit better the next time, I took an extra monk. Beat the nightbringers, The elly boss (with a few deaths), then got party wiped by the Dervish boss's Mystic Twister.

Age · Sep 02, 2007, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Pissed off with pugs again. I got into a pug for HM pogahn passage, and quit after refusal for the monk bar changes or to let me use my heroes:

Bar 3 wasnt bad, but I dont want healing touch on heroes ever. Bar 1 is like how is that hero meant to maintain their energy? Bar two was the human monk :x Also, Rebirth in HM when you cant even run away?

I just left.

Bar 1 look more for human control but I have one of my Tahkl set sort of like that SoD might be wiser choice.Bar 2 ZB or Divert Hexes would be better choices for an elite.Bar 3 doesn't look to bad and I have never known an AI to use healing touch on you themselves yes. but maybe Devine Spirit instead of Holy Haste.

That Mo/R bar no Devine Favour and pets don't well you know what I mean.That person is in a bad guild.

Lord Natural · Sep 03, 2007, 06:07 AM // 06:07

Hero monks suck at prot elites. ZB is used as a main heal, they ignore RC in favor of non-elite condition removal, and SoR is just a bad skill in many applications. Here's what I like to run in pve (HM especially):

[skill]aegis[/skill][skill]divine spirit[/skill][skill]reversal of fortune[/skill][skill]light of deliverance[/skill][skill]guardian[/skill][skill]mend condition[/skill][skill]spirit bond[/skill][skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill]

For HM, you'll have degen and pressure on multiple party members often so 1 (even 2) copies of LoD can be a life saver. In most areas I don't even bother with hex removal since hexes in HM are re-applied almost instantly. You're burning 5 energy for a +30 heal from divine favor pretty much. The exception would be if I know an area is loaded with migraines and I want to pre-veil.

Anyway the point is H&H are actually a lot more reliable than your average pug in HM (not that there are any HM pugs). It's just a matter of figuring out what skills the heroes can and can't use effectively, and how to micromanage them when needed. Have fun with Jennur's Horde

Punches · Sep 03, 2007, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Natural

If you're having many problems this early, you will get rocked in some of the later missions.

Yep, that says it all. Hard Mode is when I truly learned how to utilize my heroes, I used to feel the way you did and the later missions just seemed absolutely impossible, but having learned how to really use a hero team in HM you can do just about anything with them. I have but 2 suggestions for you, the rest is all you man:

1.- It's not just the individual builds or team builds you use but the placement of the heroes, henchies. Not using your flags is suicide. Expirement with them and learn how to make a net to pull into, or a formation with a defensive frontline, there are many possibilities. If you already know this I apologize, don't mean to underestimate you, but it should be working. Just keep trying different combos of char builds, team build, and strategic formation untill you find what works for you.

2.- Using 3 heroes and the rest hench is doable, but a 2 man full hero party is far superior. My gf and I play togather so we always have 2man, 6 hero. I recommend you find one good player, just one really really good experienced player you can get along with and buddy up with them. 2 Heads are better than one, right?

Hope this helps and best of luck, if you need any pointers you can always mssg me in game.

Ign -Naughty Vampire God.

bhavv · Sep 03, 2007, 02:53 PM // 14:53

I suggest That Anet fix Henchmen skill bars or allow 7 heroes, not me having to find work arounds to having WoH + ZB at the same time, or henchmen with no elites.

2 man 6 heroes is great, but sadly there isnt ever anyone free to do it. Theres never any pugs, and when anyone wants to join, they have monks with no elites and pets.

Tamuril elansar · Sep 03, 2007, 04:03 PM // 16:03

i did it with the mighty Razah as spiritspammer, hes a god in my eyes.

Disable rebirth on you're monk! he uses it in the MIDDLE of the battle (or sometimes even at the begin of one). SoR still works great^^

bhavv · Sep 03, 2007, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tamuril elansar

i did it with the mighty Razah as spiritspammer, hes a god in my eyes.

Disable rebirth on you're monk! he uses it in the MIDDLE of the battle (or sometimes even at the begin of one). SoR still works great^^

I'll try with razah.

Any one have any tips on boreas seabed HM? I know I have to interupt jade fury at the end, but I cant beat the champions at the start.

I tried 2x monks with the hybrid build someone posted avove (lod with aegis), but that only gets me as far as aurora.

I use res chant on my monks if they have holy haste, otherwise I dont take a res on them.

Buzzer · Sep 03, 2007, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Any one have any tips on boreas seabed HM? I know I have to interupt jade fury at the end, but I cant beat the champions at the start.

IMO for that start bit you want to stop the bosses using res sig becaues a long fight will put your party under huge pressure. Kill one and then dshot/complicate/ignorance the other. Blind helps a lot in the first two fights. Interrupt Argo's Cry obviously.

bhavv · Sep 03, 2007, 07:53 PM // 19:53

I got to the end of boreas using Lord naturals monk builds on 2 monk heroes with a couple of tweaks (Med >> Dismiss, Divine Spirit > Sig of rujuvenation, RoF > Dwaynas kiss), and a third monk horo as life barrier bonder.

I used Talon, Zho, and the two sins as heroes, but couldnt take down the kraken boss.

Funny thing is I got a human bonder from my guild to help me out a bit. I told him to use inspired / revealed hex for E management, then I see him casting Suffering and lingering curse and losing bonds all the time.

I were like WTF and his reply 'I were bored, I dont like this this build, IMHO it wont work'.

I just raged, took all heroes, got to the kraken.

bhavv · Sep 03, 2007, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Ive been in boreas seabed for two full days now trying to find people for HM, there isnt anyone there doing it.

Obey The Cat · Sep 03, 2007, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

Bar 3 doesn't look to bad and I have never known an AI to use healing touch on you themselves yes.

heroes use healing touch only on themselves. thats quite nice.

and death pact signet is uber nice for heroes.

bhavv · Sep 04, 2007, 03:10 AM // 03:10

OMG! I just hero / henched vizunah! All it needed was.... an MM! Thats 2 missions done that needed an MM.

So chuffed. Now I just have Boreas, Eternal Grove + hatchery left.

I also got venta cemetary done earlier, but that ones easy.

blue.rellik · Sep 04, 2007, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Master of Whispers - [skill]Spiteful Spirit[/skill][skill]Insidious Parasite[/skill][skill]Shadow of Fear[/skill][skill]Enfeeble[/skill][skill]Power Drain[/skill][skill]Leech Signet[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Olias - [skill]Spiteful Spirit[/skill][skill]Insidious Parasite[/skill][skill]Faintheartedness[/skill][skill]Enfeebling Blood[/skill][skill]Power Drain[/skill][skill]Leech Signet[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

I use that pretty much everywhere in HM. I find that eles just don't kill things fast enough so I finally ditched Souske and Zhed (I use them in NM however). It owns non-casters and can counter casters to a extent, it would eat though the packs of Kournana Bowman faster than Mallyx killing a squishe

Punches · Sep 04, 2007, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Master of Whispers - [skill]Spiteful Spirit[/skill][skill]Insidious Parasite[/skill][skill]Shadow of Fear[/skill][skill]Enfeeble[/skill][skill]Power Drain[/skill][skill]Leech Signet[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Olias - [skill]Spiteful Spirit[/skill][skill]Insidious Parasite[/skill][skill]Faintheartedness[/skill][skill]Enfeebling Blood[/skill][skill]Power Drain[/skill][skill]Leech Signet[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

I usually run SS myself so haven't expiremented with it on my heroes, but I am wondering if you run into problems with the two casting Spiteful and Insiduous on the same target, or how you ensure that they are spreading out and hitting different targets with these two spells.

blue.rellik · Sep 04, 2007, 03:46 AM // 03:46

I never had to worry about them, I think the AI is smart enough since everytime we come to a mob that aren't made of casters, I barely get any damage out nor does the monks need to do much healing. I know SoF/Faint + SS/Insidious Parasite is counter-productive but it's to counter the speed buff monsters get in HM

Punches · Sep 04, 2007, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

I never had to worry about them, I think the AI is smart enough...

Good to know, i can see how that would be helpfull and shall have to give it a shot myself, thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

I know SoF/Faint + SS/Insidious Parasite is counter-productive...

I personally think this is a common misconception about the purpose of SS. sire if you're fighting one enemy you would want to couple SS with something like reckless haste, but when fighting a mob i find SoF and the like helpfull and the reason is this, every enemy you cast SS on is doing dmg to the rest of the mob as long as they stay alive. Usually I'll hit one with SS and SoF then leave them alone and cast on someone else untill those skills recharge and I can hit another mark and repeat. You want to keep the ones with SS on them in a mob alive as long as possible imo, the later they drop the better.

bhavv · Sep 04, 2007, 04:12 AM // 04:12

THis was the MM bar I used for Vizunah that I got from a post in the cantha section, I cant believe how easy it made it:

[skill]Animate Bone Minions[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill][skill]Blood of the Master[/skill][skill]Order of Undeath[/skill][skill]Infuse Condition[/skill][skill]Dark Bond[/skill][skill]Mystic Regeneration[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Pretty self explanatory, make lots of minions quick, deal 16 damage off each one with order.

Superdarth · Sep 04, 2007, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Ok, I just started NF hard mode. The first three missions I got done pretty easy. Then I moved onto Consulate docks and got caned. So I reskilled my heroes with different tactics. I got caned again. So Instead of 1 hero monk and a hench monk + warder + para, I took 2 hero monks, Vekk as a warder, and whatever I could find for damage from the henchmen. Devona and Gehraz got caned.

Is it a joke that ANET expect us to do this mission on HM without updating the henchmen skillbars to their normal ones? Khim uses for spells, FOUR SPELLS and those are Orison, RoF, PS, and Renew Life. On HM. I mean seriously is it my fault that I lose constantly when the henchmen have skill bars as bad as these with no elites on HM?

I'm going to retry it with a different H/H team, but I doubt it will make much difference

/rant over.

They dont call it hard mode because its a cakewalk you know. I higly doubt it was even supposed to be henchable.

FelixCarter · Sep 04, 2007, 10:04 AM // 10:04

Is anyone else having a bit of trouble with how the henchies and heroes are currently acting?

I'm walking along, wondering around Varajar Fells, when...

Devona and Jora decide to hold a picnic in the middle of a mass-agro.
Ogden stands around, admiring the scenery while he picks his nose.
Mehnlo decides he's sick and tired of my crap and goes off to complete the rest of the game by himself with that stupid 55 build he uses in the Norn Arena.
Cynn and Talon start 'exchanging builds' behind a nearby rez shrine, thinking I don't notice their absence...
Zenmai throws down her daggers and tries to strangle the enemy with her bare hands... At least she's fighting.

Once I use the flags, they finally stop RED ENGINE GOing around and start doing what I pay them to do.